Sermon Review: Shocking Youth Message
September 4th, 2007 by Sean
Shocking Youth Message by Paul Washer. He Was Never Invited Back
click here to listen to the audio version
This was preached in 2002 to a youth evangelism conference to approx. 5,000 Southern Baptists. Paul Washer is a missionary who has spent years in the Andes Mountains of Peru and in Eastern Euroupe. His missionary organization is called Heart Cry. This sermon was preached to confront the modern notion that saying a prayer one time results in eternal salvation. The text is Matthew chapter seven. Although Paul himself believes in once-saved-always-saved he is not at all wishy washy about the doctrine. He contends that anyone who has not both had a genuine conversion (i.e. his or her life is completely changed) and live a holy life was never saved in the first place. Furthermore, he is a Calvinistic Southern Baptist which means he believes in the Trinity, heaven-at-death, eternal hell (yikes!), cross as gospel (no kingdom), and the predestination of all believers (and unbelievers). Regardless, what he says in this message is very biblical and much needed no matter what one’s doctrine of these other beliefs is. This sermon was one of the first sermons many of us heard that spoke of a radical conversion followed by a radical lifestyle of continual obedience. I would be interested in any thoughts you might have about it.
I agree with your “yikes!” comment after “eternal hell”. I cannot fathom how anyone can teach that God is Love and at the same time believe that He has predestined some of His creatures to be tormented forever in hell-fire. That’s not the gracious God that I find in Jesus’ teachings.
But having said that I think we in the west have become too soft living out our Christianity in comfortable arm-chairs, and it’s good to be confronted by guys like this.
Steve,
You do realize that Jesus taught on hell more than anyone else in the entire Bible, right? Either you are not familiar with what Jesus taught or you are a liar. Amazingly 11 of the 13 times that hell is mentioned by name in the Bible are directly from the mouth of Jesus. James and Peter mention the other 2 times (Peter uses a different Greek word). Hell is described in many other passages in the Bible, but Jesus still gives us the clearest picture of it. Read the passages below and see if your comment still holds up.
Matthew 5:22
But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hell of fire.
Matthew 5:29
If your right eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body be thrown into hell.
Matthew 5:30
And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body go into hell.
Matthew 10:28
And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell.
Matthew 16:18
And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
Matthew 18:9
And if your eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into the hell of fire.
Matthew 23:15
Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you travel across sea and land to make a single proselyte, and when he becomes a proselyte, you make him twice as much a child of hell as yourselves.
Matthew 23:33
You serpents, you brood of vipers, how are you to escape being sentenced to hell?
Mark 9:43
And if your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than with two hands to go to hell, to the unquenchable fire.
Mark 9:45
And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life lame than with two feet to be thrown into hell.
Mark 9:47
And if your eye causes you to sin, tear it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into hell,
Luke 12:5
But I will warn you whom to fear: fear him who, after he has killed, has authority to cast into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him!
In Christ,
matt haney
Oh Steve,
Feel free also to look up the context of those statements… for example Mark 9:47 is followed by 48 and 49, “And if your eye causes you to sin, tear it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into hell, ‘where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched.’ For everyone will be salted with fire.’
In Christ,
matt haney
The fire doesn’t go out, but what happens to something that’s thrown into a fire? It’s consumed, and ceases to be. (Unless you think that those not destined for the Kingdom are like the burning bush….)
Matt,
Please use a Christian tone when posting here. Steve wasn’t questioning that hell is a punishment of fire. He was remarking on the Southern Baptist position of both predestination to hell, and the fact that the torment in fire never ends.
“tartarus” is not a word that means hell in 2 Peter. Our best bible dictionaries confirm this.
The issue is not “will there be a hell on the day of judgment” but “will you be burning there forever and ever and ever?” That is impossible, since the Bible teaches many times that souls are not immortal. Souls can and do die. Even Jesus’ soul died.
Immortality is given at the resurrection at the parousia of CHrist to establish the kingdom of God upon the earth.
Dustin Smith
Matt,
We do certainly believe in hell. However, no where in Scripture is hell defined as existing now. We hold to what is called “conditional immortality,” which means that immortality is not naturally possessed by all humans but conferred at the resurrection of the righteous. The lake of fire (hell, gehenna, etc.) is mentioned in Rev 20 as a place where those who were not found written in the book of life were cast. However, it is clear also that the fire consumes the dead to the end that they are destroyed. This is why the lake of fire is the second death (Rev 21.8). Furthermore, Rom 6.23 states that the payoff for sin is death whereas the gift of God is eternal life. Traditional Christianity (including Paul Washer) sets up a different system. They say that everyone has eternal life and it is just a matter of where one spends eternity. This is simply not biblical. The wicked are cut off (Ps 37) which results in the opposite of life eternal: perishing (Jn 3.16). Life is the reward for the righteous. Death in the lake of fire is the eternal punishment of the wicked.
To hear a clear exposition of why it is important to hold to the view known as conditional immortality, click here, where Dr. John Roller explains it briefly yet comprehensively. Or take a look at our Death is Sleep site which speaks of these things in detail using free video, audio, and written resources.
I am sorry, but this site if full of unbelief and questioning what the Bible clearly teaches. Any group that attacks the basics of the faith is false. This site approaches everything the way Satan did when he said, “Did God actually say…” and “You will not surely die.” You contradict what the Bible says with your own half-truths and craftiness. You are sending your hearers to hell… strong enough words could not be used. If the Bible teaches what you claim it teaches, why do you need all these articles and the words of men to undo what it says…. if the Bible taught what you believed you wouldn’t have to explain away almost everything the Bible teaches. The warning you see in the Gospels is not so much against immorality but setting up your own religion that centers around man’s goodness and ability to to rely on his own self-righteousness. Paul said such people were to be accursed for their false Gospel. When was the last time anyone on this site wept over their own sin and repentantly fled to the cross for refuge, trusting only in the work of Christ on the cross?
matt,
With respect let me say the following. If you come to this blog, you need to come with some level of respect. Just because you disagree with the clear teachings contained throughout this blog doesn’t mean that you should talk down to us. Remember that from our perspective you are the one in error, yet we do not “bad mouth” you or cut you down.
We are firm believers in the simple, plain meaning of Scripture. We are not in the business of making the Bible more difficult to understand. I understand that since you converted from JW to Baptist (I believe Reformed) you have had a vendetta against any non-mainstream Christianities. May I suggest something? If you genuinely care about us, then engage us on specific issues. We would love to talk about the validity of eternal hell or whatever else it is you want us to change.
Having said that, remember that I’m the one who posted Ten Shekels and a Shirt by Paris Reidhead, Uncompromising Holiness by Jesse Morrell, and The Shocking Youth Message by Paul Washer. I believe and practice genuine repentance. I have wept before God for the horror of my own sin and continue to do so as God continually purifies me. I take sin very seriously and my whole life is dedicated to obeying Jesus by life or by death.
Matt,
To be fair, Sean proposed some Scriptures to back up his claims. You refute him with harsh words and no Scriptures. Our beliefs cannot be settled by who yells the loudest.
If you want to join in on the discussion, bring the Bible to the table.
I’ll start: souls are not immortal. If they were immortal, then it would be impossible for them to die. Yet we read in Ezekiel 18:4 and 20 and the soul that sins will die.
Quite clear, the soul is prone to death. The word for soul in Hebrew is nephesh. The Greek word is pshyke. I simple word study shows that the “nephesh” dies quite often in the OT and the “pshyke” dies quite often in the NT.
Here are some instances, each of which I personally checked with my Biblica Hebreica and my Greek New Testament:
Prov 6:32
Lev. 23:29
Josh 10:28
Psalm 22:29
Psalm 78:50
Rev. 16:3
Isa 53:12 (Here Jesus’ soul died, very interesting)
Matt 10:28
Mark 8:35
Psalm 40:14
Psalm 56:6
Psalm 56:13
Matt 20:28
Psalm 63:9
Isa 10:18
James 5:20
Num. 9:6
Num 9:7
Num 9:10
Rev 8:9
Matt 26:38
Psalm 89:48
Jer 18:20
Num 5:2
Num 6:6
Num 6:11
Gen 12:13
Gen 37:21
Ex 12:15
Ex 12:19
Lev 20:6
Lev 21:1
Lev 24:17
Num 19:11
Num 19:13
Num 19:20
Num 23:10
Josh 2:13
Ezek 13:18
Ezek 13:19
Ezek 13:20
Dustin Smith
Part of the confusion comes from the fact that the word “hell” in the King James Version is used as the translation of more than one word. One of them is the Greek word hades. The Hebrew equivalent is sheol, and both words, as used in the Bible, simply mean the state of being dead. Everyone that dies goes to sheol/hades. Another Greek word translated “hell” is ge’enna, which is the lake of fire into which the wicked are cast. Yet a third Greek word translated “hell” in KJV is tartaros. This word refers to the place in which the wicked angels from before the flood are held imprisoned. It only occurs once (II Peter 2:4). These three words must be carefully distinguished, since everyone that dies goes to sheol/hades but only the wicked are cast into ge’enna, the lake of fire, and then only at the end. It will exist in the future but does not exist yet.
The lake of fire is not a place of endless torment, but rather a place of final destruction. As seen in Revelation 21:8 (above) it is called “the second death.” The wicked are to be destroyed, not kept alive and tortured unendingly. Man is not inherently immortal, as we discussed in the Closer Look article on the State of the Dead. In order to keep sinners alive to torture them unendingly, God would have to grant them eternal life. But we read that eternal life is the gift of God for those who believe in the Son of God. The wages of sin is death, not endless suffering. “He that does not have the Son of God does not have life” (I John 5:12).
I deal with this in more detail on my website:
http://www.godskingdomfirst.net/FutureEvents.htm#wicked
For a lively debate on whether or not there is a hell where people are tormented eternally can be listened to by clicking here [approx 125 min]. Dan Mages, Patrick Navas, and Steve Scianni vs. Gene Cook, Mike Sarkissian, and Joel Hughes. The debate starts with introductions followed by two fifteen minute opening statements from each side, then there is a free for all time of about a half hour, followed by two fifteen minute closing statements from both sides, and then questions from the audience. I was personally struck by the inappropriate way that Gene Cook and those representing an “eternal torment” position continually attacked their opponents rather than offer affirmative data concerning their affirmation. There were some times during the debate when it was hard to keep track of what was going on because of so many people talking all at once but the opening and closing statements are certainly well representative of both sides of this issue.
Hey guys,
Long time no see. Just to keep things on track with the purpose of the post, I’d like to say that I absolutely LOVE this message. In fact I’ve blogged about it here. This is 1 of 4 videos I keep in my vod:pod widget.
I’ve listened to the Gene Cook/Patrick Navas, et. al. debate and I thought the same thing I always think when I hear Pastor Cook debate . . . he shouldn’t! I usually agree with his positions (unless he’s affirming Calvinism) but he is a lousy debator (imo).
I wrote a post a while ago that I think may have some relevance to the discussion that is going on in the comments here. If anyone would like to check it out then feel free.
Be well…
I just listened to the debate (the Dan Mages extended cut) and it was amazing how clear the annihilation position just speaks plainly for itself. The Debate was summed up quite beautifully in the end with Dans closing remarks.
Nick70 Good to see you back. I read your post but noticed that it had no scriptural backing for the idea that eternal torture is what is just and annihilation is mercy. Nor do I find one for the remark “There is no justice in not sentencing someone guilty of an eternal offense to an eternal punishment.” We all are familiar with the verse in Romans that the wages of sin is death. Where is it stated that the wages of sin is torture?
What is this business of “eternal offense?” There is no Scripture to point to in asserting the idea that man must be tortured endlessly in order for justice to be done in light of his offending the infinite One. I think Dan made a good point when he said that the greater the person to whom the offense is made the less need there is for retribution. For example, if I steal $20 from a homeless man he is likely to become exceedingly offended and want to do me much harm. However, if I steal the same amount from a wealthy man he is likely to be irritated to some small degree but will likely let it go. Now, what if I steal from an infinitely wealthy person. They would surely take notice but at the same time they would not hold me infinitely accountable. In any case, God is no more required by his infiniteness to punish us to an infinite degree than is the infinitely rich man required to extract infinite amounts of money from the person who stole $20. In fact, it is infinitely more plausible that God would be free to administer perfect justice. I would argue that because God is infinitude he is actually able to punish people less than they deserve (if he so desired) and not feel slighted because of it.
Regardless, the Scriptures are clear (as JP has pointed out) that the punishment for sin is death (Ro 6.23). More specifically we can say that the offender will be resurrected (in the 2nd resurrection cp. Rev 20) and stand before the white throne for judgment. The punishment is to be burned to death in the lake of fire (Rev 21.8).
For God so loved the world that he gave he only begotten that whoever believes in him shall not burn forever and ever and ever, but have life in the age to come. =)
Another good argument is based on the substitutionary atonement. If Jesus paid the penalty for sin and the penalty for sin is burning in hell forever then Jesus must burn in hell forever if we are to go free. Yet, this is not at all what happened. Jesus suffered and died so that we may escape suffering and dying in the final judgment.
…unless you have KJV and it says Jesus was in hell for 3 days =)
I like that argument on sub. atonement. Good call.
Would God not have to grant eternal life to even the wicked if they were going to burn alive forever? Yet as has already been noted above, eternal life is a gift from God through Christ.
The problem is that people look to Plato for their doctrine of the nature of man rather than the Hebrew Scriptures and Jesus.
Scripture does not teach that man has an immortal soul - compare this to the extensive list Dustin has already posted above.
If anyone would like a comprehensive overview of the doctrine of Conditional Immortality he or she should listen to Platonic Christianity by Edward Acton.
wo, interesting message, and disturbing, but the implication of his message about the church is left unsaid, see the video:
“Paul Washer- Is American “Christianity” really Christian? ”
http://blip.tv/file/456560