Kingdom Answers
August 4th, 2009 by Victor
Last week I asked a couple of questions to collect a cross section of people’s thoughts on the coming Kingdom of God. While the post has since developed into a discussion of another kind, I wanted to revisit these questions and answers with a few thoughts.
I have been observing lately both in my own life and in things I’ve read and heard that the expectation of the coming Kingdom has a very personal perspective. I don’t think there is anything wrong with that. Here’s what I mean - Christians are looking forward to the Kingdom of God/return of Jesus because we’re going to get a new body, we’re going to never die again, we’re going to see lost loved ones, we’re going to be able to have a lion as a pet, we’re going to share in a lavish banquet, we’re going to see an end of sickness, we’re going to not have to worry about war anymore - etc, etc, etc.
While all of these things are important elements of the next age and the restoration program of God - do you notice that in a way they are all about us? Don’t get me wrong - God is into doing things for us, blessing us, loving us and the like. This is a part of the coming Kingdom for sure. But what about Him? Why do my answers about what I’m looking forward to in the Kingdom so often revolve around the things I “get” or how my world will be improved? What about what God gets? What about what He will see happen?
It seems that at times we look at the Kingdom of God as simply a life enhancement to the lives many of us live right now. We are looking forward to the new body that comes because we often come home sore after a long day at work. We look forward to an end of sickness because we seem to be bothered often by our seasonal allergies. We look forward to an end of war because it is becoming a nuisance to see over and over again on the news. Sometimes the Kingdom of God is just an improvement upon the American life and the American dream - we get a bunch of good stuff and have a happy time - only this time its going to last a while.
Let me be clear - the Kingdom of God is not just God’s improvement upon Americana. I would imagine that our brothers and sisters in peril right now would hope it is more than just a nice house and a cool dog. Did Jesus die so that a bunch of people could be forgiven and ultimately move to the suburbs? Isn’t it more than that?
Certainly God is not in need of a reminder of His goodness like He’s going to forget that He’s awesome. But what would it say of His greatness if part of our expectation of the coming age is a little bit less about us and a little bit more about Him?
Isaiah 60:21 - Then all your people will be righteous; They will possess the land forever, the branch of My planting, the work of My hands, that I may be glorified.
So, I’m feeling that it’s more than just about me having a better life in the future though I will have a better life in the future. I’m thinking it’s more than just an end to my personal challenges and problems though there is coming an end to my personal challenges and problems. The Kingdom of God is God’s reign, God’s day of victory, God’s exaltation and as those who long for it’s coming - perhaps we could take some time to think about what God gets out of this too.
What do you think about that?
Very penetrating post, Victor. You remind me of the fact that God’s original plan–his heart’s desire–was to have a world filled with people who would love him and each other. I’m sure it broke his heart the day our primordial parents opted to risk it all to become more like God by knowing good and evil. Even so, it has been a long haul, and in the end he will have the earth inhabited (Isaiah 45.18) and the redeemed will reign over it the way he always intended (Revelation 5.9-10). Also, you reminded me of these verses:
in the end, we are in it for God…that’s not to say we don’t get a ton of perks, but it is for his glory because he is so worthy
I was just thinking about something.
I rec’d an email about a quote by John MacArthur who said ” Hypocrites wont stand for long, theres nothing in it for them”
Something like like….
I began to ponder why some people TASTE the LOVE of the LORD, but fall away~
The parable of Jesus (THE SOWER) etc.
I think that it is MORE than Johns thinking, I think its
“WHATS in it for me?” attitude.
When we think we got all that can be gotten…Life in God may be mundane…What a farce!
If our Christian life is allabout getting what WE WANT* Its sure to be dissapointing.
I think those who realize that ALL of our wants must take last place, that indeed we must DIE so that Christ will LIVE his life in us.
For the selfish that is TOO much! Wrong motivation.
I want this way of life more than LIFE because my love for God is eating me up! I want ALL his ways, all HIS thoughts…All His glory to be seen in the world…
Its NOT about what I get, Its about what I can GIVE to hIM!
I also have ben thinking about what Sean mentioned about our original mother EVE…
I think she had honorable intentions, was she NOT TRICKED???
Do not our hEARTS cry out to more like God? Christ?
Isnt that our cry each day to be more like him…
The devil as his subtle manner is USES GOOD THINGS, legitimate needs and desires , Good desires but TEMPTS us to meet those needs in an evil way.
For instance, Eve of course would desire to be like God, He is the ULTIMATE! Satan was a spirit being , one responsible to guard them,
she didnt know he was lying…He decieved her….She TOOK what he was offering to meet that need she had inan ILLEGITAMATE way~
SEX~wonderful…God blessed….devil tempts a man with a legitamate need, offers it to be met OUTSIDE the will of GOD~
The temptations of Jesus…HUNGER after 40 days of fasting..devil tempts with MEETING that need outside of Gods will, Jesus PREVAILED! “It is written”
We prevail when we say “It is written!”
anyway, much to say, too little time….
But one thing is certain, those that are SEEKING the blessings may be easily lured away* And fall away when blessing cease or like in JOB are taken…
Those of us who are looking at this as WORTH DYING FOR, worth LOSING all for, worth GIVING all form will find it easier to stand when the storms come as they inevitably will.
Great love to you,
Lisa Marie
I have some current blogs on Facebook and love discussion!
I’m looking forward to reading Dean Braxton’s new book in which
he tells what he experienced in heaven after he died. I remember
hearing him tell of how heaven is so big and there is a place for
everyone.
I remember him telling us how he was aware that all “this”, was
for him, that God did it all especially for him. That was his realization
at the time, and all he could do was say over and over again, “Thank you, Thank you, Thank you…” He did not want to leave. He told us of how in heaven where he was, that everything
was Right. It was so right he just wanted to stay.
He told of how these “beings” he called them did what the Lord told them to do, and what he told them to do was immediately followed in obedience, and that everything the Lord did was so that
everyone would know him as both Saviour and Lord.
I remember how he was aware of his place, and that it was made
especially for him.
He told us that we should expect all of our paradigms or perspectives, or “boxes” to be broken. That’s the way it was for him.
Hey Ray, do you have any Scriptures which back up your views or the perspective of Dean? It seems that his views contradict what I am saying in my post.
Ray~So many books have been written about death & dying but strangely they all appear to contradict the hOLY SCRIPTURES.
Ive had to conclude that many well meaning people and many false prophets are actively at work in our world decieving and being decieved. As it is written…
Some aspects of death that are STRIKENLY evident are:
Psalm 13:3
3Consider and hear me, O LORD my God: lighten mine eyes, lest I sleep the sleep of death;
John 11:11
These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.
Acts 13:36
For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell on sleep, and was laid unto his fathers, and saw corruption
1 Corinthians 11:30
For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.
1 Corinthians 15:51
Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1 Thessalonians 4:14
For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him
John 11:24
Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
Revelation 20:5
5But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Revelation 20:6
6Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
*** What do you think these passages mean???*****
Blessings to you,
lisa
Ray,
Please be mindful of the topic of the post…you have intentionally brought up this unrelated and unbiblical issue several times. I understand you want us to believe that the dead are in heaven but this is simply not going to happen merely because you repeat it a lot. A number of people here have engaged you on this precise issue quite a few times and you never come back with Scripture. You merely go on asserting your case. Please stop distracting posts to talk about this subject.
It is often the prayer of my heart that the forefront of my mind would be saturated in pure and undeniable love for God. At times, I am even tempted to avoid scripture, rather, skip verses, that inform me of any sort of “prize.”
I also believe God has these things written for a purpose, I should suppose to give us all a great hope for an unblemished world and lively hood…
As Christians, we should stand apart from the world, which is currently a population of self absorbed peoples. How many of us, if asked why we so lived the way we did - would answer - because I Love God and want to be with Him, in His presence, forever? Or how many of us would respond with the “perks?” If it is still about us, we are a holy looking version of the same selfish persons spattered on the earth.
As it has been previously mentioned, the “perks” are a wonderful, God given, precious gift. Yet I dare myself to not even think of the coming Kingdom - I do not want to long even for justice and perfection - not even for living among the righteous…
I want to long for God. God, alone. I dare myself to be Christ - to be in LOVE with GOD. And, I guess, rather than wait for the kingdom, be a taste of it, now, today.
According to Dean’s testimony he was dead (I could say asleep) for an hour
and forty five minutes. It seems to me that in that state he could neither talk to his
wife or friends in this world, nor could he do anything in this world
that would be of benefit to anyone. In so many ways it’s just as a
man would be asleep in this world.
A man asleep in this world may dream and be conscience of things
whether real or not even though he might appear dead to some
having at that time no apparent ability to carry on usual activities
of this life in such a condition.
When we say a man is dead, I don’t think it necessarily means he
can not be aware in the spirit. Maybe that’s one reason why Jesus said concerning Lazerus that he was asleep. I don’t know if Lazerus had anything that he brought back with him concerning
life after death, but I remember that it was because of Lazerus that many believed.
It seems to me that it’s important to remember the difference between body, soul, and spirit. The body may be dead and the mind have no conscience, therefore a sleep of death, while the man
in the spirit has interaction with the Lord in heaven.
Hi Vic!
I certainly know what you’re saying and, if i have “two cents” to throw in it’s that we, even the most enlightened, see things from a human prespective, to a large degree. After all, our thoughts are not Yahweh’s thoughts! I don’t think that It as only as ONLY a “better life” ( but, frankly, at times, I get tired of “trials”, “tests”, etc., and could really use a reprieve ) but also has the culmination of the bond which I have felt with Yahweh from “day one” ( as a child )….like the end of a successful trip somehwere. I am not sure that I can fully understand what may “be in it” for Yahweh, if that is what you mean!
Basically, I think that we all see it via somwhat different “glasses” based on each person’s “relationship dynamic” with Yahweh.
This is very speculative on my end.
In answer to your question in #4 Victor it seems to me that John
14:2 tells us that there are things Jesus does that are for us, so it’s
not necessarily wrong to know of the things he does for us is for us. I believe it’s important to thank him for those things he does
for us which are for us.
I have two scriptures that cause we to consider that people who have died are with the Lord in heaven.
One is Matthew 22:32, and the other is II Cor 5:8. This I say in answer to Sean’s comment in #6.
I have been commenting on some of the benefits of the kingdom of
heaven which has been the topic.
Why can’t someone be with the Lord even as they are dead?
(discerning body, soul, and spirit)
I think some of us are going way off the original post. God created us to Glorify and praise him not ourselves!!!!! As far as this being with God and being dead and going to heaven and all that from what I have read in the entire bible the only man that went to heaven was Jesus and he died and was in the grave and God rose him from the dead and apoximately 40 days later Jesus assended into heaven ALIVE to be with God there was not one scripture I read that says we go to heaven or hell when we die…I mean the whole purpose of Jesus being born was to preach God’s word and the whole purpose of the whole situation about Jesus was for him to leave and be seated at the right hand of God and to give us, that believe and have faith the holy spirit so we can do the same thing Jesus did NEVER ONCE DID JESUS MAKE ANYTHING ABOUT HIMSELF HE ALWAYS GAVE HIS FATHER GOD THE GLORY!!!!!!!!!
NONE OF ANYTHING GOD CREATED OR HIS PURPOSE IS ABOUT OURSELVES IT IS ALL TO GLORIFY GOD.
and what is the purpose of the gospel the resurrection the coming kingdom if we all go to heaven or hell when we die…there just isn’t anything to back that up in the scriptures…
I was just reading Isaiah 2 and found it fitting that, while one of our favorite prophetic passage concerning the Kingdom, the very last verse reads: “Stop regarding man, whose breath of life is in his nostrils; For why should he be esteemed?” It immediately made me think of your post here.
Vic
My thoughts turn to the temptation to sin. As I consider the temptation, I have to think, is this brief moment of pleasure, this moment of anger, is it worth giving up the glory which is promised to him/her that overcomes. The race we run is frought with many trials and terror. We have to “trust” in Him completely even in the face of death.