I stopped adding new shows/podcasts to Truth Matters months ago when I went back to school. However, before I left I had recorded this show with David Burge of New Zealand. I finally found the time to edit it and so you can now download it (if it interests you) by going to www.truthmattersradio.com or clicking the link below. Also, please add David to your prayers as he is currently fighting cancer (see note at the bottom).
to listen to “Objections to Conditional Immortality Answered with David Burge” click here
David Burge is the pastor of the Takanini Church of Christ in Auckland, New Zealand. He also leads the Advent Christian Conference of New Zealand and the Conditional Immortality Association of New Zealand (www.afterlife.co.nz). He has researched, written, and spoken extensively on the topic of conditional immortality (the belief that dead people are asleep until the resurrection at the return of Christ).
More Common “Proof Texts”
The parable of the rich man and Lazarus in Luke 16 is probably the primary passage that on the surface appears to support the popular notion that judgment, with resulting punishment and reward, is meted out before the resurrection. But this would contradict the rest of Scripture, which says that judgment will take place after the resurrection at the return of Christ (Daniel 12:2; John 5:28,29; Revelation 20:11-15).
Common “Proof Texts”
Despite the overwhelming evidence of the Scriptures, there are a small handful of passages that are repeatedly cited as proof that a believer goes immediately to be with the Lord at death. One of the most common is Paul’s statement in II Corinthians 5:8, “We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.” This verse is almost always misquoted as, “To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.” It is generally assumed Paul meant that to be absent from the body (i.e. at death) equals being present with the Lord. Similarly, Paul wrote in Philippians 1:23, “For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better.” Did Paul mean that when he departed he would be immediately with Christ? Does being absent from the body mean being present with the Lord? If this was what he meant, it would contradict not only the Hebrew understanding of death which we have discussed, but even many things that Paul himself wrote elsewhere.
What Happens At Death?
When a person dies, the spirit (breath life) is gone and the body corrupts in the grave (”Thou takest away their breath, they die, and return to their dust.” - Psalm 104:29). Nowhere does it say that they are conscious on another plane of existence. This makes sense when you consider that consciousness and thought are the product of a functioning brain, and the brain is no longer functioning after the breath of life is gone.
A few weeks back a cousin in my large extended family (my mother was one of 8 brothers and sisters) died of cancer at the extremely young age of 21. Since her death I have wanted to write her mother (my first cousin once removed) and her grandmother (my first cousin) a sympathy note that included a few words of Biblical encouragement. Of course the difficult thing here is that my extended family is primarily all Baptist. And as such they’re believers in going to heaven at death instead of remaining non-existent in the grave until The Resurrection at the return of Jesus. So for me the challenge is how do I express sympathy while planting a few “truth seeds” about the biblical truth of The Resurrection? I don’t want to be rude or preachy. But at the same time I wanted to express the hope that Scripture presents and see if God carries those seeds to fertile soil at some point in the future.
I recently attended a Women’s Conference and heard the Woman’s Minister say the following line, “Make your messes into your ministry and turn your pain into your passion.” And inside my heart, I knew that no truer statement could have been said about my life thus far. You see, about three years ago, my husband and I were attending a local church when our eldest son expressed his desire to be baptized. We were thrilled of course about his decision, so we phoned the youth pastor to tell him that our son wanted to be baptized the following Sunday. A few days later, we found ourselves sitting on our sofa, in our own living room, being quizzed and confronted with our beliefs.
Introductory Remarks
When we first started kingdomready.org we developed a static website which combined ministry related content with web resources primarily focused on evangelism. Our motto was and continue to be “helping people to get ready for the kingdom.” However, once people had sufficiently explored the website (usually after about a week) we noticed that for many there was not a need or desire to continue visiting the site (other than once a week to download the Sunday sermon or watch the web-cast). At this point I asked JohnnyO what we could do to increase traffic and bring more people in. He suggested that what people are looking for is not merely static content but a changing website where people could interact through conversation. We discussed the various ways that this was done (message boards, guest books, blogs, podcasts, etc.) and decided that the mechanism that best suited our needs was to have a blog. The original conception was simple: we wanted to have a section of kingdomready that was alive and changing on a regular basis. It was (and still is) our desire to have a new blog post every other day. Beyond this, we did not really have guidelines in place for what the blog posts should contain.
Matthew 5:48 - “Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.”
Surely Jesus doesn’t mean “don’t ever make a mistake or sin” does he? How could this be? Doesn’t he know “nobody’s perfect?” What is Jesus saying here? Is this an impossible verse?
Luke 14:33 - “So then, none of you can be My disciple who does not give up all his own possessions.”
Surely Jesus doesn’t really mean “give up all your stuff” does he? How could this be? He probably just means be willing to give up all your possessions. But then again, that’s not what he said. What is Jesus saying here? Is this an impossible verse?
1 Thessalonians 5:17 - pray without ceasing
Surely Paul doesn’t mean “pray and don’t ever stop” does he? How could this be? What is Paul saying here? Is this an impossible verse?